Friday Fight: Harold & Kumar
Even though Lindsay and Gabe are friends, they very rarely agree on anything. Every day, they have a fight about something. On Fridays, we publish one.
4:20PM
gabe: you ready cheech?
lindsay: ok
gabe: so harold and kumar
gabe: where would you even place it?
gabe: in your pantheon?
lindsay: The Asian Friday I never knew I desperately needed.
gabe: so your favorite movie of all tiem?
gabe: or is that something slightly better
lindsay: god no!
gabe: like Good Burger
lindsay: It was just the first stoner comedy for smart people I ever saw
gabe: ok, well it sucks
gabe: let's just get into it
lindsay: hahahaha
gabe: because it is a bad movie
gabe: and i have seen it twice
gabe: and it is bad
lindsay: were you under the influence of marijuana either time?
gabe: i will say this
gabe: i recognize that there are movies that are made more enjoyable by certain viewing experiences
gabe: like "this is a great stupid movie to watch with a bunch of friends"
gabe: or whatever
gabe: but it's usually a terrible movie that is "unintentionally hilarious"
lindsay: but my harold and kumar theory is that it's groundbreaking
gabe: right, so what the fuck are you talking about?
lindsay: well when I first heard about it, I thought I knew what I was in for: a stoner quest comedy like dude where's my car (which isn't terrible under the right situation either)
lindsay: But then I saw it and was like wow, this is a little bit smarter!
gabe: AHAHHAHAHA
gabe: it's that "little bit smarter"
gabe: that makes it revolutionary?
lindsay: I will always win because you weren't stoned.
gabe: harold and kumar already starts at a defecit for me
gabe: because without even all the pot stuff, which i just don't think is funny
gabe: it's an impossible task plot
gabe: which, admittedly, along with mistaken identity is a popular comedic structure
gabe: but i hate it
lindsay: But that tension is fun if you're stoned
gabe: of course they will succeed, so you just have to suffer through two hours of punishment
lindsay: but this one took it to a different level by being more creative
lindsay: I mean, Freak show?
gabe: LINDSAY
lindsay: when has there been another character like Freak Show
gabe: um, in every movie
gabe: a gross out character with a hot wife?
lindsay: ok fine
gabe: that is not original or unique at all
gabe: groundbreaking
gabe: get a grip
gabe: but so here's the other thing
gabe: about pot comedy in general
gabe: i am really put off by the self-satisfcation of pot culture
lindsay: But these things are fun, if you have smoked yourself into a whole other species of person who is BAKED and you want to see your own life experience and pov reflected in movies.
gabe: you guys think you're really special for smoking pot
lindsay: I smoke pot JUST TO WATCH THESE MOVIES
gabe: imagine harold and kumar just being drunk
lindsay: they don't make movies for drunk people
gabe: right
lindsay: they make movies for stoned people. it's an aesthetic.
gabe: right, but it's a self absorbed aesthetic
lindsay: when they forget the cellphone and they look back at the hall for a long time
lindsay: and then they say "No, we've gone too far." it's a brotherhood
gabe: yes, but it's a particular subculture that celebrates something that isn't nearly half as fascinating as people who like to smoke weed think it is
lindsay: that subculture LOVES this movie
gabe: that subculture LOVES everything about that subculture
gabe: that is my whole point
gabe: it's the most navel-gazy subculture ever
gabe: "isn't it funny how he is high and we are high"
gabe: "we are really high, congratulations'
gabe: "good work everyone."
lindsay: As The Notebook is for chicks with PMS
lindsay: So Harold and Kumar is for stoned people
lindsay: As I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry is for homophobic retards
lindsay: This movie has so many funny parts!!
lindsay: How many times do you need to laugh in a movie for it to be worth your while?
lindsay: Because you must be constantly disappointed
gabe: well, i wrote down my laughs
gabe: and i think there were something like 8
lindsay: That is an astounding number
gabe: that is not an astounding nubmer at all
lindsay: this all goes back to the pot thing
gabe: and the imporatnt thing in this movie
gabe: is that the moments in between the laughs were painful like, painful painful
gabe: like i wanted to throw my computer in the garbage
lindsay: Also Kal Penn is boneable
gabe: that does not, again, make it a funny movie
lindsay: hahaha, you watched it on your computer
lindsay: in Starbucks
lindsay: during the day
lindsay: drinking coffee
gabe: i had already seen it
lindsay: and being square
gabe: well, all my drum circle and hackeysack buddies were busy
lindsay: Ok if you dont find the big bag of pot scene funny then not only can we not even begin to debate the merits of this movie but I'm not even sure if we should be friends anymore.
lindsay: The big bag of pot scene is objectively funny
gabe: look, it's a stupid movie for stoners
gabe: and it's probably better than some others?
gabe: or something?
gabe: but please do not maintain that it's a legitimately funny or good movie and your contention that its revolutionary
lindsay: well just having an asian guy and an indian guy fighting back against their frat boy oppressors makes it different
gabe: i think that frat boys are pretty beleagured in comedies
gabe: at least since the 80s
gabe: starting with revenge of the nrds
lindsay: well it's kind of funny to me that the extreme guys are the villians and sort of a large part of the intended audience
lindsay: I think it is actually wrong for non high people to watch movies intended for a high audience.
gabe: imagine that it was not a stoner comedy
gabe: imagine that it is just an impossible task comedy
gabe: a planes, trains, and automobiles if you will
gabe: you might still enjoy it stoned but would you think of it as a great movie?
gabe: i mean, a lot of shit can be funny when you're in the "proper" frame of mind
lindsay: I file of harold and kumar in a very special folder in my brain called Things That Are Better Than They Have To Be
gabe: that is a charity folder
lindsay: No way!
lindsay: Almost everything is exactly as good as it has to be
lindsay: Like, as many people would have seen it in the theater if it hadn't been as funny but would it have become a total dvd classic?
lindsay: meriting a sequel on that basis alone?
gabe: are you really oging to use sequels?
gabe: as an argument for quality? or even financial success?
gabe: 10,000 BC was the number one movie in the counry two weeks ago
lindsay: No that means nothing
lindsay: dvd sales have meaning though
lindsay: it means you want to keep the movie close physically and emotionally
gabe: or that you have a drug problem
gabe: one of the two
the movie isn't just an hour and a half of your life it's part of your shelf
lindsay: your identity that you show to the world
gabe: i think that a lot of things are dvd successes that you would not stand behind
gabe: i think these arguments are going to come back and kill you some day
gabe: when Kangaroo Jack 2 destroys
I think we need to watch a stoner movie on pot
gabe: we should watch this movie together
gabe: but i have to be really high
gabe: and you have to be sober
lindsay: do I have to watch it again sober?
lindsay: ugh
lindsay: it sucks
gabe: one point gabe
lindsay: damint. but I don't want kal penn to read it and not make out with me someday.
gabe: I promise he will never read this.
Posted by Gabe at 5:23 PM in Friday Fight
Tags: Harold And Kumar | John Cho | Kal Penn | Marijuana Cigarettes
the only thing i love more than Harold & Kumar is reading gabe rail against it. well done.
Score = 0
Preach on Lindsey. I'm content with Gabe not getting it. I'm consistently blown away (no pun intended) by people that don't smoke criticizing the culture. Oh and by the way that Horrible People thing you posted the other day was shit on a shit stick.
I'm curious though, Gabe, what are the 5-10 best comedies of the decade in your opinion? I would put Harold and Kumar on that list, along with Knocked Up. Both had to do with green. Both are hilarious no matter what mental state you're in.
Score = -2
i smoke and i am constantly blown away (pun intended) by the stupidity and moronic sense of the entire culture. The day you find me reading high times is the day i quite smoking. Ohh and harold and kumar while high is alright, not great but better than expected.
Score = -1
Gabe, quite being such an L 7. Everyone should be able to occasionally enjoy some lowest common denominator humor without having such a vehement repulsion towards people that smoke/movies about stoners . You make this movie sound like it was Rob Schneider's "the Animal." Lighten up. You're bringing an indiesnob mindset to a popculture blog.
Score = 0
wow, you guys managed to find the two most annoying people of all time to discuss one of the most annoying films in recent memory. pat yourselves on the back.
Score = -8
Just to clarify, Liam, when you say "you guys managed to find the two most annoying people of all time," is the 'you guys' referring to the editors of this site? Because they're the same people who are arguing in this post.
I agree with you that we are the worst and should kill ourselves, I just want to be on the same page.
Score = 6
I love Stoner Movies (yes, the term deserves the capitalization I just bestowed it with) as much as Lindsay, but I didn't think the first "H&K" was anything to write home about. And the sequel looks even worse. I mean, I suppose it was sort of revolutionary in that it gave Asians and Indians a stoner role model to look up to, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the film was actually worthy of legendary status. All of the Stoner Movie aficianados out there need to see Anna Faris in "Smiley Face" ... now THAT is an epic flight of fancy.
Score = 2
You can't talk about Harold and Kumar without mentioning Neil Patrick Harris...have you seen the sequel poster with him on the unicorn? HIgh or not, that's funny.
Score = 1
beer fest is kind of an impossible task comedy for drunk people. not a particularly good one. and i'm not fully convinced it's geared towards drunk people any more than it's geared towards stoners.
Score = 0
When Pineapple Express lands, I will come to this site to see the results.
Score = 0
I don't smoke and I thought this movie was hilarious. It's one of my favorite comedies of recent memory.
Score = 0
I'm not a stoner (in fact I'm the tee-total opposite), I saw the movie in the theatre (at a preview screening actually), and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I think that as well as stoners laughing with the movie, I get to laugh at the movie. And I about peed myself when Neil Patrick Harris popped up.
Score = 0
I don't smoke, haven't seen Harold & Kumar, and Lindsay is not a good arguer at all and is not motivating me to see this moviefilm.
Score = 0
Harold and Kumar are responsible for my DUI.
Score = 0
The chat logs of Gabe and Lindsay make for an enthralling read.
Score = 0
I've never seen Harold and Kumar while I was high, AND I think both arguments were kind of flawed. Can you believe that? An anonymous commenter picking at a blog post?
I think a comedy ought to be funny under most circumstances. Period. I thought the more absurd gags (Freak Show, NPH) were lame to painful, but I'll give Harold and Kumar credit for having the same kind of emotional grounding that made movies like Caddyshack so good.
I've actually thought a lot about this because I watch a lot of movies and I smoke a lot of pot. I often have to explain to people that, yes, I liked Super Troopers, but a slice of buffalo chicken pizza probably would have made me just as happy.
My point being that simple pleasures are still pleasures, but that doesn't make them good movies.
I agree with Gabe that a lot of "stoner movies" do suffer from their insularity, but I like seeing actors play stoned. Recognition is one of the most important things in a story, and that's, I think, what makes Harold and Kumar stand above the average stoner flick. The story is flawed, but there's definitely an emotional honesty to the movie.
Me, though... I like to get high and watch mysteries. Even the bad ones keep me guessing.
Score = 0
I think Big Lebowski has to qualify as an earlier and better "stoner comedy for smart people." And I don't hate Harold and Kumar at all (seen it twice, never stoned), but it's really not head and shoulders above other entries in the genre I've seen, like Friday or How High.
Score = 0
Lebowski's good. Or even "The Long Goodbye," even though it doesn't have any explicit references to Marlowe smoking weed (he wouldn't!). It's just kind of a stoned movie, not a movie for stoners or about them. Although I guess that's sort of pretentious of me. Like when people call "Peeping Tom" their favorite horror movie.
Oh well. Deal with it!
Score = 0
movie about drunks: fubar.-->well executed drunk humor.....well after like the 5th time you've watched it anyways.
Score = 1
Drunk movie: Withnail & I
And any movie you can play a drinking game to is a movie for drunks, really. So... Wild Zero, anyone?
Score = 0
yes, Gabe. I am. this shit was more painful than "Dharma and Greg".
Score = 0
They didn't set out to make a cult-hit movie about pot; they set out to make a comedy with multi-ethnic appeal for a specific subculture. It became a cult-hit because 90% of our population smokes weed and this film was enjoyable to poser-rasta white kids in suburbia, stoner moms and dads, and sober people that like to laugh.
Score = 0
Did you guys start this convo at 4:20 on purpose?
Score = 0