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Piers Morgan recently interviewed Kirk Cameron for some reason. I honestly have no idea. Like, we talk about Kirk Cameron on the Internet sometimes because he’ll be in a movie about how God Loves Christian Married Firefighters, or we will join him in the celebration of his birthday, but I’m not entirely clear how either of those things rate an actual interview on CNN about the issues of the day. Despite how he might like to think he comes off in a self-financed documentary about his vacation to England, Kirk Cameron is not a meaningful political figure. (I’m not actually sure whether or not his documentary is self-financed but it sure LOOKS self-financed.) He’s not quite as ridiculous and incendiary as Victoria Jackson, but he certainly uses his diminishing fame to push a political agenda that he’s incapable of defending. (It’s important to point out that lots of people are conservative and Christian and hold very strong beliefs about the way the world should work, and those people are entitled to their opinion because this is AMERICA, but if one of you is going to go on television and explain these feelings to the rest of us, you might not want it to be Kirk Cameron anymore because he’s doing a RILL bad job of it.) In any case, the subject of gay marriage came up, naturally, and that is when Kirk Cameron stared at his hands and spouted off a bunch of simple-minded garbage:
Yoops! We have obviously already covered at great length the disingenuousness of defending straight marriage as “sacred” in an age of exploding divorce rates where marriage is the basis for reality television shows. But it’s also funny (good use of the word “funny,” I’m sure) how his main reason for why two people who love each other shouldn’t be allowed to share the same basic legal rights as the rest of us is that marriage is “as old as dirt.” This is a particular Christian chestnut that is always surprising because it wouldn’t stand the test of a Junior High Debate Team. Something isn’t “good” or “right” just because it is old. We have made a lot of positive advances since the Garden of Eden, which itself had a pretty steep learning curve, I’ve heard. For example, very few of these same philosophers, Jehovah’s Witnesses aside, would refuse modern medical treatment because it’s not old as dirt enough. I’m sure most of them have refrigerators. I’m making a stupid point (as an homage to all of Kirk Cameron’s points) but I’m just saying that it’s not a compelling argument to say that people should be ostracized and hated and told that they are “unnatural” simply because we’ve been doing it for a long time.
And now there is this, from the Hollywood Reporter:
Amid backlash against Cameron, Piers Morgan defended his right to speak out, however “antiquated” his beliefs. In an interview with TMZ, Morgan called Cameron “pretty brave” for voicing his opinion. “I felt that he was honest to what he believed, and I don’t think he was expecting the furor that it created,” Morgan said.
Well, no, Piers Morgan. It’s not brave simply to be unembarrassed about your public hate speech. I doubt that Piers Morgan would make a comment like that if someone came onto his show and just started going off with some neo-Nazi race shit. Just because everyone is entitled to their beliefs doesn’t mean everyone needs to say them out loud. ON TELEVISION. And if he didn’t expect the furor that his comments created (oh, apparently his comments created a furor, btw) then that simply goes to show how overly confident he is in his ignorance. What kind of insulated bubble does this monster live in?! It’s one thing to be bold and hateful and think you’re right, it’s another thing entirely to be bold and hateful and think you’re right without the expectation that some of us might disagree with you.
And yet, once again, after all of this the main thing I am shocked and confused by is that Kirk Cameron was being interviewed on a serious news channel in the first place. (Video via Gothamist.)
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If gay marriage is wrong, then how do you explain the fact that bananas are proof of God and He made them the same shape as penises and that both things can go in your mouth? #varsitydebateteam #checkmate
Something that is as old as dirt must have to go through some serious growing pains to still be viable in today’s world.
It’s a rare condition in this day and age to read any good news on the newspaper page.
Taking a break from all your worries sure would help a lot.
(Am I doing this right?)
Sometimes you wanna go… where everybody knows your name.
So, Kirk, no one told you life was gonna be this way. Your job’s a joke, you’re broke, and you hate all the gays!
Sometimes the world looks perfect, nothing to rearrange. Sometimes you get a feeling, like you need some kind of change.
The dream? Wide broken. Seemed like all was lost. What would be the future? Could you pay the cost? You wonder, Will there ever be a second time around?
Standing tall on the wings of my dreams!!
:: A Different World theme song begins to play::
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see
Perhaps reread the post. He’s not surprised at the furor; he’s confused at Piers Morgan’s decision to put him on the show and Cameron’s inability to anticipate the furor.
It would seem Gabe’s post has caused a furor.
A furor here, a furor there, furor furor everywhere! (I just wanted to feel included. I’ll show myself out.)
What’s this about the Führer?
Something about how Hitler is a Wolfman. #grimmreference
So’re the Royal Family. #drwhoreference
I read that as Dr. Whore Ference. I ate a big cupcake and now I can’t see straight.
Kirk Cameron IS “The Rural Furor”
You know what else is as “old as dirt,” Kirk Cameron? Homosexuality.
Yup. It’s at least as old as bigotry.
BOOM
At least as old as Democracy …
Says the man who hangs around with guys named “Boner.”
And the Cosby’s had COCKroach.
What’s going on here?
“You could cut the sexual tension with a knife.” Alan Thicke Probably
“Alan Thicke” is a good porn name.
I prefer the ouevre of Thicke Alan.
Also Thicke Allen ONLY does gay porn parodies of “very special” Growing Pains episodes. You won’t believe what happens when the Matthew Perry guy drinks and drives! (It involves a tussle with the law… And some really weird scenes with a night stick.)
USED to hang out with guys named boner.
R.I.P. Boner
While Andrew Koenig has gone on to meet his maker, Boner still lives. Both in our hearts and in syndication.
And in our pants.
And in our pants
Whoops! Spider Andrew Koenig.
Yesssssssssssssss.
OMG that is so meta, djfreshie. You’re ready to write a Community spec script now.
So Kirk, who did Adam and Eve’s kids have sex with? Did Cain have a hot sister or something? Does that mean the bible endorses incest?
#yes
Why don’t literal bible believers ever question this? Adam and Eve have two kids, Cain kills Abel, God kicks Cain out of town, and then… “Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch.” (Genesis 4:17)
What? Who? Wife?
This could apply to a LOT of different parts of the bible. Like when Jesus got mad and killed a tree because it didn’t have any fruit on it. Personally, I’d say that a book that is thousands of years old is bound to have parts that are missing or warped from their original versions.
You’re implying the bible is imperfect? Kirk Cameron has at least one family counting on it not being imperfect. Doesn’t wanna get “left behind” because of a typo or a poor translation!
“When asked for comment, God shrugged, said ‘Is that DJ Tanner’s brother?’ and continued looking at humorous images on George Takei’s Facebook wall.”
OH MY
Amazeballs
That’s why a Kirk Cameron party only has room for ladies.
And “Alan Thicke”-shaped sandwiches.
Oh man, that reminds me of a ‘gameshow’ segment on Jimmy Fallon last week. All the challenges were really just punchlines at the audience member’s expense.
One guy had to participate in a Pictionary-type game. He had to quickly draw whatever Jimmy read off his card.
The subject was: “A man about to bite into a baguette.”
Ahem, lady ghosts.
Ned Flanders: No foot-longs.
Maude Flanders: I know, they make you uncomfortable.
Pictured: A sacred institution as old as dirt
There is only one person to blame for how KC turned out … Alan Thicke
Isn’t Alan Thicke’s son that R&B singer who’s a sex machine to all the chicks?
Kirk is right to advise people not to act on every little feeling they have. Otherwise how many people would have tried to strangle him by now?
For a guy who is so brave and honest about his beliefs, he sure has a tough time just straight up saying that homosexuality is a sin (0:33).
I’m pretty sure when Kirk said he needed an “overhaul of the heart” he was talking about butt sex. Someone get this man butt sex, stat!
Don’t these people remember that Jesus hung out with a bunch of “sluts” and “whores”? I mean his BFF was a full time hooker. I”m pretty sure Jesus would be like “you’re so Caiaphas Kirk!”
See, these are the kind of things in this world that really just make me lose hope… On one hand we have hate mongering and flat out ignorance. On the other hand, we all have a right to free speech so it’s not my place to say someone cannot voice their shitty opinions.
Fuck it all.
He is awful. But now it is our patriotic duty as Americans to make fun or him and his backwards ways.
Do it for God and for Country. And because it’s fun.
Kirk Cameron is a bigot with stupid hair and sad birthday parties. (Somewhere an eagle just wept out of joy.)
Well you know badideajeans, that not only is it our duty, but it is our 1st Amendment Right. FREEDOM!
Kirk Cameron is a DWEEB! (That’s still something people say right?)
#neverforget (that jokes at Kirk Cameron’s expense are what make this country great)
I don’t believe he actually means this. If he did, he would be doing so much to discourage the rumors about him being a homosexual:
Too soon.
I can TOTALLY see someone confusing Kirk Cameron with Chris O’Donnell. Their heads are similarly shaped.
This is the first time I’ve wished I could upvote something multiple times.
The 90′s destroyed so many things.
I really like Gabe’s refrigerator argument. I’m going to use it a lot — especially when discussing vaccines with annoying new parents.
I think that Kirk Cameron’s beliefs about homosexuality are wrong, but I don’t think he is hateful. When asked to reconcile the existence of homosexual feelings with the authority of the Bible, which he has dedicated his life to, he is trying to circle a square, and he does this by drawing a distinction between behavior and desire. I agree with Gabe that Cameron’s defense of his gay marriage position is very poorly made, mainly because it is a position that is almost impossible to make without an appeal to an authority that isn’t agreed upon or to fears which aren’t universally shared.
He does, however, make an excellent point at the end of the clip about the existence of multiple standards of morality that are often in conflict. While I would say that this point creates the basis for an excellent argument against his own stance, it also is an argument for giving him the benefit of the doubt with regard to being a hateful person. It’s clear that he recognizes that his is not the only perspective. It is also clear that he is making his perspective known because he believes that it will help people and the world.
I actually think that it is pretty brave for him to use what remaining celebrity he has to set himself up for widespread ridicule in an attempt, however wrongheaded, to help others. I disagree with just about everything that he says, but I do not doubt his sincerity.
And this, Godsauce, is why I would love you if God allowed it.
God doesn’t have to know.
Yes, but unless he says that the other standard is wrong, he’s not being intellectually honest, because he believes his is the true standard defined by God. Furthermore, Morgan is trying to talk about civil society, while Cameron is talking around him about sins and moral standards. Cameron might not be motivated by hate, but stupidity and a limiting worldview play significant roles.
There’s no question that his worldview is limited, but I don’t see him as being hateful per se, either. He seems like one of them “hate the sin, love the sinner” folks (even though the rest of us know there is no such thing). I actually felt like HE (Cameron) was the one taking the multiple worldview position in the face of Piers’ attempts to get him to “admit” something. It seemed like he was deliberately trying to skirt the issue of whether gay marriage being legal in 7 states was indicative of anything. It’s clear that he personally “answers to a higher standard” but it’s not clear whether he would condemn the civil liberties newly afforded by those seven state governments. (Even though we ALL know he would endorse a country run under [his interpretation of] Christian law with a quickness.)
I largely agree, Godsauce. Like lots of you guys, I know many people who say homosexuality is a sin, but they are not hateful people. They view homosexuals the way you and I might view a drug addict – lost and in need. It’s misguided, sheltered, ill-informed, very sad and probably fearful worldview – but if we read it as hateful then the whole conversation is derailed from the get-go.
I recently had the true joy of seeing a very dear friend and pastor who had long thought of homosexuality as being evil finally come around to accepting and supporting it, all due to friendships with a few big-hearted gay men who understood that his heart was in the right place. Their mutual understanding was a foundation for very meaningful, productive and, eventually, life-changing talks.
However, I would say that there is no denying that Kirk Cameron’s beliefs are used as support for a LOT of genuinely, violently hateful bile and no matter how sincere he is in them, it is irresponsible of him to broadcast them like this, knowing the fires he is fueling.
This is a guy who thinks peanut butter disproves evolution. Why is anyone even listening to words coming out of his mouth?
I know Kirk isn’t exactly the voice of his generation anymore, but I do feel sad that somewhere in America is a teen who is gay and always has been and is in the closet and scared of being found out and is hearing he needs to be cured somehow (spiritually, physically).
I think of that kid and the urge to give Mr. Cameron grudging respect for being brave quiets down a bit.
For what it’s worth, Kirk’s voice is now only one in a sea of encouraging and supporting voices.
The main problem with the promotion of America’s* free speech, is that we’re taught everyone is entitled to an opinion, and everyone’s opinion is worth something, This is total shit. In reality, an IGNORANT and UNINFORMED opinion is NOT VALID. People continually confuse ‘preference’ with ‘opinion’ and think they have the right to spew out uninformed & unexamined mind diarrhea.
Kirk Cameron has obviously spent a lot of time examining and testing HIS views in reference to HIS own ideas about what the bible means. to HIM. He needs to read some goddamn Judith Butler and do some real self-reflection.
Using his own moral standard, if homosexuals are really just sinners like the rest of us then what’s the big fucking deal, Kirk? This claim about sticking to your faith in denying rights for homosexuals does not ever hold up. I HIGHLY doubt Kirk, or Santorum, or anyone else chooses to abide by everything written in the bible, and i bet if you asked Kirk why he doesnt do those freakish acts of violence and penitence that are outlined in scripture, he would say ‘because people have progressed beyond doing that kind of harmful and hateful behavior.’
I don’t agree with everything you’re saying here (I certainly agree that Kirk Cameron is quite ignorant, and also that he makes TERRIBLE movies), but your words do give me pause and make me think of this Isaac Asimov quote: “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’ “
Personally, I don’t care about this issue. However, yall muthafuckaz seen the trailer for Assassin’s Creed III?!?! FVCCCKK!!
This was an interesting conversation, but skirted some equally important issues, such as: what does Tootie think of stem cell research? Where does Punky Brewster stand on the topic of single provider healthcare? What, for heaven’s sake, is Moesha’s position on motorcycle helmet laws?
Equally important, I tell ya.
As long as we keep on givin’, we can take anything that comes our way.
We need more people like Kirk Cameron.That was awesome!! He makes the best movies.
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