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Being an intern in an entertainment industry pretty much sucks, no doy. The internships are almost exclusively unpaid and they almost exclusively consist of the jobs that the people who are being paid would rather not do, because they are not interns anymore. Mainly they’re only things to complain about for a few months and then put on your resume so you can maybe get paid next time, hopefully by one of the people you met while on your internship. A Duh Aficionado exclusive: That is what an entertainment industry internship is. But two former Black Swan interns are FED UP with that practice and filing a lawsuit. From The New York Times:
The lawsuit, filed in federal court in Manhattan, claims that Fox Searchlight Pictures, the producer of Black Swan, had the interns do menial work that should have been done by paid employees and did not provide them with the type of educational experience that labor rules require in order to exempt employers from paying interns.
Not that this isn’t a fair thing to be upset about. It does break actual laws that exist. And it’s fine for people to stick up for themselves when people break laws on them (correct way to say?). Especially considering the tasks they had one of them, age 24, perform during his production internship:
One plaintiff, Alex Footman, a 2009 Wesleyan graduate who majored in film studies, said his responsibilities included preparing coffee for the production office, ensuring that the coffee pot was full, taking and distributing lunch orders for the production staff, taking out the trash and cleaning the office.
Noooooooooooooooooo! Who was running this set, NATALIE PORTMAN’S MOM FROM BLACK SWAN? Alex goes on to say, “The only thing I learned on this internship was to be more picky in choosing employment opportunities.” Obviously. Right now that is what every 24-year-old college graduate is saying, that they have to be more picky in choosing their employment opportunities. I hope he settles his lawsuit for thirty tribillion dollars. The other guy included in the lawsuit is a 42-year-old accounting guy who took an accounting internship on the movie because he wanted to move into film accounting.
The other named plaintiff, Eric Glatt, 42, prepared documents for purchase orders and petty cash, traveled to the set to obtain signatures on documents and created spreadsheets to track missing information in employee personnel file.
Haha, oh noooooooo, whaaaaaat?! For real, I don’t understand this case. They’re trying to say they didn’t learn enough and should’ve been paid because they were doing too much work to not be paid and also not learn. But, first, old accounting guy — You probably already knew a good amount? You’re very old and you have been doing accounting things for a long time. And it doesn’t look like the things they asked you to handle were too difficult. And you knew you were taking an unpaid internship merely for the purpose of obtaining contacts in an industry you wanted to break into. I don’t understand what your problem is. And young guy, YOU ARE CLEARLY THE WORST. What did you expect to be doing? Honestly? Please email me what you expected to be doing because I can’t even guess.
The kind of most annoying thing about this lawsuit is that they’re acting like they’re sacrificing their futures in the film industry to stand up for the rights of unpaid interns. And I’m certainly all for standing up for the rights of unpaid interns who are taken advantage of at their internships, and I do believe that happens a lot. But it doesn’t seem like it happened in this case, really? I’M NO JUDGE. Certainly. All I did was read an article. But it seems like they’re doing more to hurt the cause than to help it. Normal shitty internships are great! People need those! They really do help a lot of the time! Stop trying to take normal shitty internships away! And also stop trying to water down cases of interns who are actually taken advantage of! Everything you are both doing is wrong. And old person, you should have probably just applied for an accounting job that would have actually paid you on a smaller movie. You probably would have gotten it. I don’t know why you left your actual job and applied for an unpaid internship on Black Swan. That was dumb. I rest my case.
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“Shut the fuck up.” – every production assistant
are you quoting the production assistants who were not hired b/c the production company chose to use unpaid interns instead? b/c if so, the quote would be “why are you stealing my job?” – every unemployed production assistant.
and the response would be, “you can get paid for this?” – unpaid interns
I’m rooting for them. They DID have to put up with whatever Barbra Hershey did to her face on a daily basis.
We’re going to need a bigger Hershey’s kiss chocolate candy
Is that your way of saying she’s pretty?
though the people suing are kind of lame, unpaid internships are also the worst. I don’t want to defend them, but at the same time I know how much it sucks to get no experience whatsoever at an “internship.” and then have to pay out of pocket for the credits. paying $3000 (at least at my school) to learn nothing and do the duties of a minimum wage job and maybe get a good recommendation is not worth it.
I understand why there are unpaid internships, but there is a legal grey area there. Not paying someone for work is considered well – free labor and free labor is arguably exploitative. The NY Times had a good article about this a few months ago because so many companies – you know the ones that pay huge bonuses to their CEOs but then lay off 1000s of people are ALSO using free labor from college kids and recent grads. It’s become a vicious cycle – you don’t have experience so you intern, you get no money but then you can’t get hired because you did no real work as an intern and you have no money to live anywhere or start a life. Also it benefits the wealthy upper class because those are the kids that can afford to live in the city for free and work for free. The middle and lower class suffer – and hence the domination of rich culture continues.
Check this out: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/opinion/03perlin.html?pagewanted=all
I read on your precious “huffington post” a story about how conde nast, salon and others are auctioning off internships to the highest bidder.
you mean that pinko commie liberal huffington post?
exactly. i went to a college that had a pretty large population of wealthy kids ( i was not one of them). hearing girls talk about their unpaid internships in NYC for the summer at some really well-known place always made me a little sick. Not that I ever really wanted the positions, it was more the attitude of “daddy called in a favor and got me in and is now paying for me to sublet an upscale Manhattan apartment for 3 months.” Ugh.
I’ve also spent a lot of time lately reading about how effed 20-somethings are right now. The highest rate of unemployment. Also, if you enter the workforce during a recession you’re going to be making 10% less for the rest of your life. It’s a bit disheartening and has also made me extremely cynical.
There’s a book on the actual exploitation interns face: http://www.versobooks.com/books/797-intern-nation
Footman also claimed that Mila Kunis took him out drinking, drugged him, took advantage of him, and then pretending the whole thing didn’t happen the next day.
I wonder if the interns had to pretend that Black Swan was a good movie. Now THAT is something I would sue somebody over
Eric Glatt’s description actually sounds like a pretty decent internship. I have no pity for you Eric, and frankly, based on your name, you sound made up.
OH NO GLATT! You had to make Spreadsheets?!! What? In ACCOUNTING? Huuuuuuuh?
I’m with 24 year old. Unless you’re interning to work in office administration, those all sound like worthless activities. We hire interns at my office, and we have them do annoying stuff we don’t want to do FOR SURE, but it’s actual work-related stuff. I can make my own coffee an order my own lunch and I’m sure there’s someone whose job description includes throwing out the trash. I don’t think I’d sue, but I’d for sure quit after a week if they didn’t give me something to do.
But Glatt? Glatt, Shut up you.
Seriously. I work in accounting- purchase orders and petty cash are key parts of a business. Spreadsheets suck, but getting the information to pay your employees is kind of important. Sounds like someone should have been stuck on coffee duty.
Sidenote, when I applied for my job I asked if it was paid, as I was applying for an internship/entry level position with low expectations. My now coworker laughed in my face and said it’s way too much of an investment to train someone to do the work and not even pay them to get them to come back.
There was a lone holdout in the lawsuit. Fred Niewodowski, a 23 year old graduate of Film Studies from NYU, said he was quite pleased with his duties as “panty wrangler” for Ms. Portman and Ms. Kunis.
Watching Natalie Portman have intercourse with a bed MUST be rough.
And the day has begun.
I would pay cash money out of my own pocket for the privilege of fetching coffee and snacks for Natalie Portman. I would pay a premium fee for the privilege of watching her eat it. Yes. Also I would pay additional fees to perform these services for Mila Kunis. Indeed. Do tell. Case closed. Sleep tight. Amen.
Stay rad, Steve Winwood.
You know, I see so many ads on craigslist (the most reliable job website – no duh) for unpaid internships.
I do think that an unpaid internship with the right company could help you gain experience and contacts, especially if you can get college credits out of it. As for people who have already graduated from college, I’m not sure what their benefit could be to taking out the trash, etc.
I browse craigslist from time to time for freelance work. I’m a graphic designer, and it makes me nuts that people in the “gigs” section want to pay $20 for a logo or hire a photographer for $100. It’s insulting. But luckily I have a full time job, so I can ignore those. If I didn’t, I would probably do myself and my industry a big disservice by accepting those rates so I can eat dinner and pay my bills.
the benefit is that if it is a company you love and want to work for but they’re not technically hiring right now you can get your foot in the door, charm their socks off and then either create a new position for new opportunities that you yourself create or fill the first vacancy that emerges.
Yes, but the chances of getting the internship at the company you love, charming them, AND getting a position soon after your internship ends cannot be that good.
While I was in college, I temped for the office I work for now. Had I not done this, I might not be working here now, so I am proof that it can happen. I love my job and my coworkers, and I got my foot in the door temping. I just doubt very much that this happens all the time.
Realistically, how long can a recent graduate hold out for that position while not making any money. Yes, they are getting their foot in the door, but what if a vacancy/new position doesn’t open right away?
I was able to do it for three months way back in the day and it proved out as I described, bro. I’m sure the starving babies in Africa know EXACTLY what you are complaining about just kidding.
Ha. Well, I consider myself (and you) very lucky. I hope all the baby interns out there score their dream jobs after doing some shit for free. No sarcasmo.
This sounds like another lame attempt by Natalie Portman’s dance double to stir up another controversy. GET OVER IT LADY, SHE HAS THE OSCAR AND ISN’T GIVING IT BACK.
“Something somthing you used ‘another’ twice in one sentence, friendo.” — Weve Stinwood
“There is another.” – Yoda
I kind of sympathize with the younger intern, especially when I found out every cup of coffee had to look EXACTLY like this:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__kNMBDAgUJM/Sybm1_tDy3I/AAAAAAAASQI/zUsvgTVIB60/s400/23)+Pi+Aronofsky.jpg
my PI joke has gone horribly wrong…
Boss Guy: Hey Alex, can you pick us up some sandwiches?
Alex: (seething anger) Sure.
BG: Thanks. Here, we wrote down our orders, you can just go to the sub place down the street.
A: (broiling, white hot anger) FINE.
BG: You okay?
A: (volcanic anger) YEP. Just FINE.
BG: Cool, take your time, no rush.
A: (sun implosion anger)
Can’t believe a Wesleyan graduate would act so entitled.
It is statements like this that make you think you have never seen this guy’s student film work or have ever heard him talk about how much he loves the art as a process.
Even if their claims were legitimate, why are they suing now instead of, say, quitting when they realized that they hated it? Kind of like complaining that your steak was undercooked after you eat the whole thing, isn’t it?
“This Glory Hole experience was unsatisfactory” – very legal matter
Here’s the problem, internships are inherently exploitive. interns get “experience” and resume padding in exchange for crappy work that takes jobs away from others. it is largely unregulated and legal infractions are seldom reported. I don’t think we need an intern union, but some monitoring should be in place. companies don’t care to make any changes unless legal action is taken…
compared to the level of intern exploitation I’ve seen in NYC, these guys’ complaints are not too bad, but they are bad nonetheless and employers don’t learn unless they get sued. this is a litigious country and complaints have to come in the form of lawsuits for any change to occur.
I think we’ve got a good case.
This tells me that these interns (at least the young one) didn’t have enough ambition to learn more himself – find people, ask questions, make yourself useful YOU’RE AN INTERN – you’re at the bottom of the food chain. Sorry, I have no pity for this. My husband and I both had demanding/menial internships in two notoriously difficult industries – sports and entertainment. What we both learned: If you want something, go get it, they won’t come to you…you need to prove yourself to them and that you want “it”.
Whiners.
exactly
yes, it is true that they have to go out and “get” what they want, hence, this lawsuit. they want compensation and this is how they’re choosing to go about getting it. bottom of the food chain or not there are certain rules that need to be followed, like, interns should not be doing a cleaning person’s job. this is not our arbitrary standard, it’s the legal standard. you must only do work that is not normally intended for another paid position. you can have an intern do some work, but it can’t be done b/c the production doesn’t want to hire another person to do it. i worked at a company where people were fired and replaced by interns. business owners defend this practice by saying it’s b/c of the economy… meanwhile, people lose jobs, interns get exploited and the guys on top get extra money. this is illegal and if more interns step up to complain, ex post facto or not, it will hopefully bring about change. sexual harassment used to be considered a standard part of the work place until lawsuits came about which changed the office landscape. why blame the victim when you know who’s responsible?
I’m going to sue this “underscore line” commentator because that is how I get what I want. Looks like someone’s argument just got subverted by its own petard hoist. Drops the mic.
in what ways is my comment breaking the law?
in all senses
that doesn’t really make sense either though. Giving the interns actual tasks employees normally do is what they wanted- to not be useless errandboys. (and an actual accountant complaining about nothing)
the point is for interns to learn from the work they are doing. they are supposedly offering their services free of charge in exchange for a learning experience. it ceases to become a learning environment when other staff are fired (or not hired at all) so interns can perform their job responsibilities exclusively. imagine a factory where all employees are replaced by “interns” so they can “learn” how to weld 8 hours a day. it’s not practical nor acceptable in trade positions, but in creative communities, it is fast becoming the standard, b/c the economy is so bad, blah blah blah… it’s justification for employers to save money by decreasing the paid work force. if you’re unemployed in the creative community, you can bet an intern is doing your work now.
This story is merely an example of the way unpaid internships have gone off the track. An argument can be made that internships completed in the confines of a educational program where credit is earned do not need to be paid. After that, everyone should be paid for the services they are providing.
It was an interesting dynamic at my business school, where students in my concentration were required to be paid for our internships, while the finance guys down the hall could not receive credit unless the internships were unpaid. Were our internships structured differently in any way? No. I made 20 an hour for my work while the finance kids had to wait tables at night (or, more likely, use M&D’s credit card).
The fact is, pay the damn people $10 bucks an hour, and continue to do all the horrible things everyone does to the interns. That way, they at least have some monetary value from what is generally a crap experience anyway. Most of us do unfulfilling jobs we hate; we do them for money. It’s how society works.
I did an unpaid internship and unpaid internships are unfair. And it is true that you learn nothing. I have removed my unpaid internship from my resume. If you don’t pay someone, what is your motivation to give them valuable work?
For the record, I have had four internships in the entertainment industry, and three of them WERE paid (Thank you very much, Walt Disney). My logic is, if your venture is profitable enough, you should be able to value your human capital (at least at minimum wage). If you’re setting out to give people a learning experience, you should be obliged to do that.
This post promoted a link-hopping search through articles about internships that awoke sad memories for me. I couldn’t afford to accept the unpaid internships offered to me in college, even though I knew how necessary they were for my desired field of work (politics).
So I’m basically saying, thanks for reminding me of how crappy* my life is, GABE.
*Using the “first world problems” grading scale, of course. I actually made myself a great, very cushy, if unfulfilled, life now. Learning to settle I guess?
Okay this is also bumming me out to even write. I was trying to make light of my unwarranted sadness in the face of those with real problems and failed miserably. This parachute is a knapsack!
It was actually KELLY who reminded you of how crappy your life is.
Oh, are we done with the Kelly = Gabe joke? I miss all the memos!
“These horrible swans must be stopped! We’re suing them for everything they’ve got and then we’re going after all of the other bird species too.” –their lawyer
Also… why did they wait a whole year to decide they were unhappy with their internships?
Hi, Unpaid Videogum Interns reading this!
That internship ruled tbh
While I agree that the two persons filing the lawsuit have not by any means seen the worst of unpaid entertainment internships, some of the comments to this article are just downright insulting and ignorant of those that have. I recently graduated from a university that requires a 6-month full time co-op to graduate. For many majors it is paid. I was a music industry major and was told from the get-go that it would be very unlikely to be unpaid. I spent 6 months in New York working for a magazine completely for free because I was fortunate to find a dirt cheap place to stay. I worked long hours, often until 8-10 at night with a 90 minute commute home. I was able to maximize the connections there to wrangle job offers after graduation – I was one of the lucky ones. But a lot of college students aren’t that lucky. They work the same hours without even a travel stipend (NYC subway passes are $110/mo btw) to just get coffee for a CHANCE they’ll get a recommendation, and even with that recommendation absolutely no guarantee they’ll find a job in their field within a year of graduation. The vast majority of interns are willing to do the work, but they deserve to at least have a chance. They are not your personal baristas. Starbucks hired those for you, they get paid (usually) more than minimum wage and even part timers get health benefits. Either pay them or give them real work to do. Don’t exploit them and then get mad when they don’t want to just take it.
Are you serious?
I’m trying to figure out what might have happened in your life that would create the sheer force of the entitlement with which you’ve written this article. Have you ever worked for free? Have you ever worked for free in one of the most expensive cities in the world? Maybe you wanted one of these internships and got passed up for it?
If a movie makes as much money as Black Swan did, they should pay EVERYONE who was involved. End of story. Whether or not you learn anything from it, unpaid labor is unpaid labor, and the laws are only “gray” in this area because the laws were written in a different economy by people who had unpaid interns working for them.
In short, shut up and become a decent human being.
Really, how very immature and naive. Clearly the author gets paid for something.
While the experience these two had is not at all uncommon in internships (I, when first hearing about this was taken aback by the fact they were sewing, before thinking about it) that does not make it right.
The purpose of an internship is to learn about a job, or to work one’s way into or gain favor from a company. Some internships pay, in which case, sure, give that person all the menial labor you want. It still sucks but it is not slave labor. When an internship does not pay, other benefits are to be expected. When an intern can tell they are being groomed for a position they will later keep, or is learning valuable life skills that is great! But if they are being treated like trash just realize, they are PAYING for that privilege. Internships that do not pay require you take class credit as compensation. Class credit costs money, and a lot of it depending on where you go to university. Furthermore transportation or food or housing is not provided. Not that it all should be per say, but those are all expenses that the intern now has to shoulder without any income. A company should at least pay for the cost of the class credit so that the student is not PAYING TO WORK for them.
I would like to point out that I am usually very against law suits; they are often petty and over very stupid things. But a company as large as Fox Searchlight should really know better. They can afford to pay someone for craft services. I hope this case at least makes a change in the way interns are treated by companies that choose to exploit the system. No one wants to pay to be exploited.