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Tina Fey has a personal essay in this week’s issue of the New Yorker, and there is one quote in particular that has been reTumbled a lot by all the major Tumblrs. Did you see it? You probably already saw it. But if you didn’t see it, look here:
“I know older men in comedy who can barely feed and clean themselves, and they still work. The women, though, they’re all ‘crazy.’ I have a suspicion — and hear me out, because this is a rough one — that the definition of ‘crazy’ in show business is a woman who keeps talking even after no one wants to fuck her anymore.”
Wait, isn’t that EVERYONE’S definition of crazy? DING DONG, I BURNED YOU, GIRLS! Just kidding. 2011! Our Bodies Ourselves! Showbiz! I’m sorry? I don’t know. It’s a tough world out there, still. I will say, though, and I know I’m going to ruffle some ladyfeathers here, but I definitely think that while Tina may have a point, at least in the case of the 1962 drama, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, there is more going on with those crazy ladies than just being unfuckable and wanting to talk. OK? Sorry to kick the hornets nest of the evergreen Whatever Happened to Baby Jane war of the sexes. Seriously, their house is filthy and that one lady is so mean!
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Got to agree with Tina on this one.
Preemptive jpg:
It’s a good thing that everyone on facebook wants to fuck Betty White.
How many of these can we really put up with?
Just playin’
Gonna play the vagina card and say that you can’t comment on the veracity or applicability of this statement if you’re not a woman, no more than a white dude can dispute the accuracy of a statement such as, “Racism is everywhere if you’re a black man in America” etc. In other words, you know not of what you speak Gabe. You’re a man in comedy and not subject to the same scrutiny, challenges and stereotypes as a woman in your field.
You’d think the vagina card would be more fun, sorry.
Can fuzzy blue monsters comment on the veracity of this statement? Asking for a friend.
I’m reminded of the episode of South Park with Token and Stan, when Stan’s dad uses the n word on Wheel of Fortune. At the big climax of the episode, Stan has the classic epiphany where he learns everything he needs to know about the subject of the episode.
However, Stan finally says to Token, beaming smile on his face, “I don’t get it.”
Token replies, “You got it.”
Being a man, I recuse myself from this conversation for just such a reason.
If you do send a vagina card, remember that traditionally, they’re mailed in double envelopes with the inner one lined but not gummed.
This is going to save me a lot in both postage and vagina cards. Thanks, Patrick M.
Hmm, I have to disagree with your statement. Men are entitled to opinions on women’s status. White people can discuss racism. If Gabe, as a man, isn’t allowed to state that he partially disagrees with Tina Fey, then how can an open discussion ensue where men and women can expand on the idea and maybe come to a consensus or not?
I haven’t read the whole article, so I don’t know if Tina goes on to mention specific comedians or situtations. I just don’t feel like you can outright exclude anyone from being expressing an opinion or a discussion.
p.s. I am an owner of a vagina.
“being expressing” is obviously the subjunctive tense here. In no way did I not proofread my comment or anything.
I’m not saying he can’t comment on it; as I state in my original post, he’s in no position to speak to the *veracity* of the claim, nor is any man, even if they agree with it, simply because they can’t know what it’s like to be a woman in comedy, or indeed to be a woman in any profession. So sure, he can say “i think X is true and Y is incorrect” but, as the kids say, it ain’t mean shit to me (that’s how children talk, I’m sure of it)
I disagree. Woman might have the market cornered on the experience of being a woman in show business, but anyone with the willingness to observe is capable of making an analysis of industry attitudes and demographics. That Tina Fey knows how it feels to be a woman in show business doesn’t make her uniquely qualified to assess other people’s perspectives, which is what she is doing in this quote. I actually agree with her on this for the most part, but I have every right to argue against her point of view.
I agree with your conclusion.
Congratulations on the Vagina.
Um, SM, then what is one to do when a woman claims that women are inherently unequal to men? (Happens a lot.) Are men obliged to believe them, too? Just trying to figure out who owns the vagina card and how we penis people should interpret it. That said, Team Tina over here.
what I want to know is, does your vagina card have a little bit of scratch n sniff action?
Jeb, I’ve been meaning to talk to you about changing the name of our club from “Penis People” to pretty much anything else.
I’ve added it to next week’s conference call agenda.
One week later…
Jeb: I now call to order this week’s meeting of the Penis Folk.
This is the winner.
Did you at least cconsider “the Order of the Penis?”
Yeah, but that’s straight up opinion (youth parlance again!) not a matter of vocalizing thoughts formed through one’s experiences, and experiences to which one is privy because of one’s sex.
A woman saying, “Men are smarter than women” is not the same as a woman saying “Men have it easier in the legal profession than women”; surely you see the difference, because it’s quarter past four on a Monday and i really don’t want to have to be articulate.
Hahah. What are you guys even TALKING ABOUT? I am pretty sure I posted Tina Fey’s quote and then made a non-committal joke about What Happened to Baby Jane. You guys are welcome to fight about what it all means, but since I never voiced an actual opinion one way or the other (although I did suggest that I think she has a point) please leave me out of it, thanks.
Sorry for playing the Leave Me Out Of It Card.
Oh, so you only begin a statement with “I definitely think…” when you’re NOT stating an opinion? You so wacky!
My only advice for Gabe is to definitely not post a story about how Gwyneth Paltrow’s pussy is crazy.
If you do send a Leave Me Out Of It Card, remember that they are secretly vaginas.
“F- you Gabe!”
But ALL statements like that are subjective. A woman can’t judge the veracity of the statement “men have it easier in the legal profession than women” if she’s never been a man in the legal profession.
It’s still an opinion, it’s just informed differently than a man’s would.
This is exactly why trans people are the wisest of them all.
when one plays the vagina card, does another one pop out behind it? -Penis People Member 65486243
Somewhere here there are the makings of just the worst joke about something not fitting, thus requiring an acquittal.
I agree and disagree on this. While it’s true that exclusive experiences exist and you can’t discount someone views if it’s impossible for you to fully understand where they’re coming from, it’s wrong to say that (in this case) men can’t be involved in the discussion.
As long as everyone acknowledges the limitations of their own experience, a civil and informed debate is possible.
Otherwise, where would it end? Can I not understand her point of view because, while I’m a woman, I’m not a woman in comedy? What if I was a young woman in comedy? Would that be give me a different perspective than a female comedian over 45?
Well, yeah.
But I’m not sure anyone can judge the veraciry of Tina’s claim based on personal experience, unless that experience includes being many aging female comedians. Tina’s still working, and many people want to fuck her, so she’s just commenting on what she sees in her industry. I doubt she’s handing out surveys, and there may be women in the same industry who would disagree with what she’s saying here.
Our bodies, our shelves. – R. Crumb
I’m young and pretty and I’m hilarious. If this goes away I’ll KILL MYSELF AND IT’LL ALL BE TINA FEY’S FAULT.
Jenna: What’s too old?
Jack : That’s a very good question, how old are you?
Jenna: I’m 29
Jack : What year were you born?
Jenna: 1977
Jack : When did you graduate high school?
Jenna: 94
Jack: When do you turn 40?
Jenna: twenty-seventeen
Jack : Who was your high-school crush?
Jenna: Curt Cameron
Jack: Prom theme?
Jenna: Mo-town Philly Boys II Men
Jack : What movie did you lose your virginity to?
Jenna: Aracnaphobia
Jack : Theatre or drive-in?
Jenna: What’s a drive-in?
being a white male is awesome!
“Everyone listens to me!”
This needs more upvotes.
Woohoo! Three cheers for the hegemonic patriarchy!
“She’s Crazy” – Weve Stinwood
“Women aren’t funny, pinheads!” -Bil O’Reilly, from something, sometime, somewhere I’m sure.
Bil has one “l”. Thanks Monday, better check all the drafts I sent out this morning or I’ll be out of a job by 5.
does the same apply to politics?.. cuz she’s still talking
Not politics in general, but I am going to take a guess that it will apply to Fox News.
Counterpoint:
Oh, man! I just ate lunch. That’s horrible.
Tracy Morgan wants to fuck her.
No he just masturbates to her. Or at the very least considers her worthy of masturbating to. I think. Is there a chart or graph of this kind of stuff?
He has called her a MILF repeatedly. Sexual acronyms have meanings!
I’m not familiar. MILF has a different meaning than Manners, I Like Fancy?
May I Leave Flowers?
http://achewood.com/index.php?date=07142004
(Since this is apparently all I do on videogum is reference achewood.)
LOL! (Lizzing out loud)
“Woman be ovulatin’.” – Gabe (JK guys. Jokes and all that)
Women*. Ugh, Monday give me back my brain.
White Rich Ladies in Show Business Problems
“I know older men in comedy who can barely feed and clean themselves, and they still work.”
I bet she’s talking about Steve Martin.
He once had wealth, power, and the love of a beautiful woman.
But, seriously, he’s actually something of renaissance man these days between his writing and his banjo playing.
see also:
(my first photo post! fingers crossed)
While she may be completely right that the people who run show business think this, I kind of take offense to anyone saying, “This is how people think.” It just seems like a gross generalization to say people grossly generalize all the time and, wait, no, don’t cut me of-
Shit.
“That’s crazy talk, Tina” – Gabe
“I feel your pain, Tina. Let’s go castle-shopping.”
Paltrow, Gwyneth. “Being Rich/White: It Ain’t Easy.” GOOP Magazine. 07 Feb. 2011: 6000-2011. Print.
“I feel your pain, Tina. Let’s go castle-shopping.”
Paltrow, Gwyneth. “Being Rich/White: It Ain’t Easy.” GOOP Magazine. 07 Feb. 2011: 6000-2011. Print.
I think the real question here, is who’s callin’ who crazy? I’m not in show biz, but I was unaware there was a rash of crazy calling out there..
Dangit.
Go back to the kitchen and make me some 30 Rock.
I cannot put into words how hard this made me laugh soooooo GIF:
It’s a be hard to comment given that most of us aren’t in show business, and if we are (entertainment blogger don’t count, yo) none of us probably have the same level of experience in the professional entertainment realm as Tina Lemon. So anything we might have to add about the realities of gender politics in entertainment and comedy is all just conjecture.
That being said, that quote be dammmmn victimizin’, huh? Is Lemon really saying that all women who aren’t bangable are looked down at as nutty-pajutties?
I’m curious how this quote intersects with the entire script for “Rosemary’s Baby” (30 Rock episode, not movie). Carrie Fisher plays an aging comedian who Jack thinks is crazy…and she’s actually crazy.
“Does that guy have a gun?”
“Yes, but don’t worry about it, he’s not a cop.”
It’s one of my favorite episodes, but it seems to imply a bit more complexity.
Or maybe a bit less. I’m totally going to be thinking about this tomorrow.
I will verify that this also applies to women who teach. It’s not that my college students don’t think I should be teaching, but they seem to think the highest compliment they can pay me is that they don’t literally fall asleep while I am talking because I’m “so crazy” or “hysterical.” Some of them will occasionally acknowledge that they think I’m smart, but I hear “crazy” ten times for every “smart.” I’ll take it, I guess. I think the assumption here is that older men get credit for knowing exactly what they’re doing, but if an older woman (I’m 31, which is apparently “older” nowadays) is interesting, it must be because she’s nuts.
(There are rules for young people, too, who should watch out that in recommendation letters, black students tend to be described as “friendly” and women are described as “easy to get along with,” while white males are “intelligent.”)
Just out of curiosity, what do you teach? And are you crazy?
British literature, and yes? But not in the hysterical way; I’m just slightly anxious.
I renamed Opeth’s critically acclaimed album “My Arms, Your Hearse” to “My Dick, These Hoez Moufs”
Ray J taught me the emoticon for that:8:::::::::::::: > )))))))))
I actually agree with Tina Fey to an extent, but didn’t she have Carrie Fisher on 30 Rock as a CRAZY GRANDMA LADY??????? So confused.
“SEX MAKES THE PEOPLE GO AWAY.”
She’s got it backwards. It’s crazy to fuck women who won’t shut up, amiright, fellas??
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What the fuck does this argument even mean? People say this kind of thing to invalidate feminism but how does that even work? When one group is systematically privileged over another, and has had that privilege reaffirmed over literally thousands of years across almost every social environment, why the fuck is the disempowered group supposed to be sad about the stuff happening to EVERYONE? It isn’t happening to everyone. It is happening to them. PEOPLE aren’t treated poorly – WOMEN are treated poorly. WOMEN are discriminated against, WOMEN are disenfranchised, WOMEN are barred from getting an education, WOMEN are saddled with the burden of childrearing, WOMEN are denied access to adequate health care, WOMEN aren’t allowed control over their reproductive organs, WOMEN are et fucking cetera. When we act as though every bad thing that has ever happened to a being is just a misfortune falling on that atomized individual, it’s an easy way to ignore systemic prejudice and privilege.
“Complaining about it” is the only way systemic privilege has EVER BEEN CHANGED. Martin Luther King, Jr. “complained about it.” So did Gandhi, Betty Friedan, Margaret Sanger, Elie Wiesel, Harvey Milk, and just about every other force for change the world has ever produced. Where exactly do you think change comes from? Telling people to “stop seeing things in terms of ___” is something that privileged people tell to those who are suffering from the fact that the world is viewed in EXACTLY THAT WAY. Black people see the world in terms of color because their lives are constricted by virtue of their race. Women see the world in terms of gender because the fact that they’re women limits their opportunities in the world. If feminists stop talking about the patriarchy, it doesn’t go away, because it was there BEFORE they started talking about the patriarchy – that’s the whole reason feminism exists. Oh, ugh, indeed.
TL;DR Tina Fey version: “Bitches get shit done.”
I might be a little in love with you, fyi.
“feminism”
I normally like you, facetaco, but you appear to have a serious misunderstanding of what feminism is and what feminists actually believe in or what we’re working for.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY
Jeez, are all you broads on the rag or something?
INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION!
HAHAHA. Women as comedians. Good one.
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I have such a problem with “comedian” and “comic actor” being used interchangeably, even though it’s technically correct.
But we have enough going on on this board right now as is, so fuck it.
Hmmm…the coolest comic actor would probably be John Ritter as Jack Tripper in Three’s Company.
I think when you put the quote in its context, if you read that article, there is really no debate to be had. I think some people wanted to make a fuss about it, and they did . She is not ranting or raving, she was commenting about two men who had made a children’s book about working moms depicting them as witches and then she gradually blabs about her own fears of how she will be perceived in the future when she is an older female comedian and how annoying it is when people ask her about if she is going to have another child or not.
I’m staying out of this but will definitely side with the winner, so someone tell me who the winner is, OK?
Is this?
Michale Chaplin?
I have a penis, ok? Fine. I have a penis. But how is that my opinion? How is that my opinion? I mean, c’mon.
But how did the penis get there?
our opinions about god have no place near a vagina discussion
I think we should double check that one. Computer, can you generate a nude Tayne?
What does this even mean?
“Wait, isn’t that EVERYONE’S definition of crazy? DING DONG, I BURNED YOU, GIRLS! Just kidding. 2011! Our Bodies Ourselves! Showbiz! I’m sorry? I don’t know. It’s a tough world out there, still. I will say, though, and I know I’m going to ruffle some ladyfeathers here, but I definitely think that while Tina may have a point, at least in the case of the 1962 drama, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, there is more going on with those crazy ladies than just being unfuckable and wanting to talk. OK? Sorry to kick the hornets nest of the evergreen Whatever Happened to Baby Jane war of the sexes. Seriously, their house is filthy and that one lady is so mean!”
Because I am not sure…
It means that Gabe hates women, Tina Fey, Bette Davis, and Kim Carnes. But I’m a dude so I’m not really allowed to comment on this.
I think it means “I am not sure what to say, and so references and volume.” Which, to be fair, is better than “I know the exact wrong thing to say and think it is the right thing to say.”
Still–I thought we all just assumed sexism was still pretty widespread in the writing room, as well as the board room? If so, why not point out that you could replace “show business” with “business” in Fey’s statement and it would still be functional?
I guess what I’m trying to say is there’s always going to be room for dick jokes. Feel free to follow this semi-coherent post with a “room/dick” joke of your own.
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Julia Sweeney, Jan Hooks, Ana Gasteyer, Jane Curtin, Laraine Newman, Cheri Oteri. These might be some of the women Fey had in mind. They are not working as much as their male counterparts.
No one calls Julia Sweeney, Jan Hooks, Ana Gasteyer, Jane Curtin, Laraine Newman, Cheri Oteri crazy.
Tina Fey is awesome, but she was all over the map on this comment, and excuse me for pointing it out.
Videogum is the best pop culture website on the go, partly because I thought that it wasn’t afraid to call people out when there was some callin’ out to be done.
Who are their “male counterparts”? Because there are about a million male ex-SNL’ers that were never heard from again, too.
My girlfriend loves Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, so a few weeks ago I surprised her with a couple of tickets to see it at the local arthouse theater. It turned out to be an “Out San Diego” event, so we got to see it with 500 old gay men. It was like some awesome hybrid of a local Rocky Horror screening and drag bingo. Super fun.
What happens to aging hermaphrodites in comedy?
You should draw an MS Paint cumstain on Tina Fey’s picture. That’ll show her!
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