Photos
Jerry Seinfeld has finally broken his legendary silence and weighed in on the Leno/O’Brien situation. From the Hollywood Reporter:
What did the network do to him? I don’t think anyone’s preventing people from watching Conan. Once they give you the cameras, it’s on you. I can’t blame NBC for having to move things around. I hope Conan stays, I think he’s terrific. But there’s no rules in show business, there’s no refs.
First of all, shut up, Jerry Seinfeld. You should stop weighing in on things that literally have NOTHING to do with you, and spend some of your copious amounts of wealthy free time trying to figure out a way to explain what your new TV show is, since apparently that’s the next great mystery facing mankind. Everyone is on the edge of their seat wondering if it will ever be possible for a human being to explain a shitty reality show-game show hybrid about marriage. But also, you should shut up for a more important reason, and not just because who asked you.
You should shut up because:
your own historically successful TV show didn’t gain actual popularity until its fourth season and was almost canceled numerous times, but held on long enough because a) NBC decided to give it a chance to develop an audience and b) you had fucking CHEERS as a lead-in.
I know that Wikipedia is not the coolest source for FACTS, but this is just the most concise description of what was going on back then:
[Seinfeld] premiered as The Seinfeld Chronicles on July 5, 1989. After it aired, a pickup by NBC did not seem likely and the show was actually offered to Fox, which declined to pick it up. However, Rick Ludwin, head of late night and special events for NBC, diverted money from his budget, and the next four episodes were filmed. These episodes were highly-rated as they followed Cheers on Thursdays at 9:30 p.m., and the series was finally picked up.
The show was actually offered to FOX, which declined to pick it up. I’m just saying that the argument that it is entirely up to the entertainer to make people want to watch them is almost entirely false, especially when you are dealing with audiences on this scale. It is up to the network to give the entertainer the space and time for audiences to actually find them, and one of the ways in which they can do that is by offering the entertainer a successful and appropriate lead-in that carries momentum to their show rather than draining it by being a half-hearted bullshit rip-off of the same thing. It would be like saying Seinfeld had nothing to complain about during those troubled early years if his lead-in had been…well, The Jay Leno Show.
Ugh, Seinfeld. Go make Bee Movie 2, you jerk. Just kidding. Please don’t make Bee Movie 2.
P.S. Speaking of comedians weighing in on this when they don’t have to, but in this case it’s kind of interesting, here is Patton Oswalt’s take on the situation. And then let’s be done with Leno/O’Brien for the rest of the day/week/month/year/decade.
 |
 |
You Might Also Like
 Conan O’Brien Announces The Name Of His TBS Show |  Late Night Television Writers Emmy Award Not To Be… |  Conan O’Brien And David Letterman |  Predicting Tonight’s Terrible Jay Leno Monologue Jokes |
Leave a Reply
Sign inSign in with FacebookYou must be logged in to post, reply to, or rate a comment.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see
Your insult only works if the premise is that Videogum is a site about Videogum, which it is not. So you shut up, not me.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see
The point is that Seinfeld got chance after chance after chance to stay on the air even with abysmal ratings and even with an awesome lead in. He might not be *wrong* but he wasn’t canceled after 5 months like Conan is (more or less). NBC hasn’t given Conan’s show a chance to find its place like it did for Seinfeld, for YEARS.
The thing everyone keeps dancing around is that Conan shouldn?t really need any time to develop and audience this time. Conan is not a newcomer in the late-night field. It would be one thing if we were talking about Jimmy Fallon, who was somewhat of a celebrity before taking over but both he and his audience were not used to him being a late-night host. It takes time to get used to making the show, get a sense of what the show will be about, etc. Conan has been doing this since the early 90s. Just because he moved up to Jay?s old spot doesn?t mean all bets are off. He is essentially doing the same show that he had for years and the public knows that. I understand that Jay Leno is the worst and Conan is much, much better, but can we stop pretending like we?ve got a problem with NBC?s business model and just come clean and say the problem is Jay Leno.
A few things–
First, Leno did not get pushed out of the Tonight Show. He announced his retirement years ago, and NBC announced his replacement after that. So, no.
Secondly, Seinfeld sounds like a dick because his observations on the subject make him sound much more naive than anyone in “the biz” as long as he has been has a right to. Is he really claiming that shows only succeed or fail on the strength of one actor or comedian’s performance over a few months ? As Gabe points out, this sounds like horseshit coming from someone whose own wildly successful show took so long to catch on, even with a lead in like Cheers.
Lastly, this is a pop culture blog, written primarily by one person. Meaning, a whole blog devoted to subjective judgments on trivial subject matter. Please go play Professor of the Economic Logic of Latenight Programming Decisions someplace else!
Boy, these pretzels are making me thirsty….
In the interest of facts. Jay did not announce his retirement. He WAS “pushed out.” He is not funny and should have been pushed out, but he did not make the choice as you say.
You are correct. I think Leno was a little blind-sided by it, actually. He wasn’t even close to ready to retire… but NBC wanted to keep O’Brien around so they promised him TTS. This whole situation is really sad.
Unless he’s the dumbest guy to ever hit it big in Hollywood, Leno can’t have been blindsided by this. I mean, he might have been unhappy about it, but blindsided? This has been in the works for years. And really, even if he WAS blindsided… when the hook comes out to snag you off the stage, it’s not a good move to run back out with lesser material.
Hmmmm…well, consider me corrected. I guess I didn’t really follow all that when it happened, but it did seem more or less amicable, no? I don’t know–why am I pretending to give a shit?
shit just got real.
So many shut ups!
Can’t we all be friends…
BAM. You got sent to Shut Up School.
Also videogum is an excellent example of groupthink. and fucking sucks dick. god hates fags. i like insane clown posse. DOWN VOTE AWAY SWEET LEMMINGS DOWN VOTE AWAY.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see
banned why, because i disagree with you? freedom of speech ftw.
No! Not because you disagree, because you said “God hates fags”.
I personally find that offense, even if it may have been taken out of context, you still should not say it.
Fight! Fight! Fight!
It’s an argument about nothing.
Oooh, you said it too.
Dear lord, has anyone ever READ the 1st Amendment? (This is a serious pet peeve of mine.) “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” Where does it say “media outlets must give douchebags free reign to spout nonsense”? You can say anything you want. No one owes you a venue.
I think he was joking about freedom of speech.
Relax technowardenelfuego.
upvoted
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see
Now now, don’t be upset. We Monsters get along. That doesn’t make us sheeple, Glennnnn Beck; it means we’re civilized human beings who appreciate good manners.
huuuuugs!
Politeness is the new punk rock
This isn’t politics, it’s an internet website on the ww.internet. Relaxgum, dawg.
Jerry Sienfeld is very good at not being very good.
You are not the first and you will not be the last of commenters who confuse “dissent” with being an asshole. Just to clarify, your counterpoint to my post about Jerry Seinfeld ignoring the fact that he was given multiple chances to develop an audience over many years while Conan is being punished for not developing an audience in five months with a miserable lead-in was that I should shut up, and then you elaborated on your point, which is that “videogum sucks dick”?
Videogum welcomes and encourages healthy debate and differing opinions, but you’re just a jerk.
“Videogum welcomes and encourages healthy debate and differing opinions, but you’re just a jerk.” Justice Delahaye, El Fuego v. Videogum, 23 US 153, at 165 (2010).
Jeez guys. Indoor voices.
you’re actually wrong there. commenters disagree with gabe and with each other all the time, and if you’ve got a well thought out and well written point (aside from saying “you suck!” or bringing nazis into the discussion) then you will find that most of the time people weigh in reasonably on both sides of the argument.
no soup for you!
chillax. debate is cool. hostility not so much.
if your going to be a douche at least have a good humor about it. Lke, Sux my dix lemmings! right? that’s funny because I used “x”‘s instead of “ck”‘s
or not. just…chill. vgum is fun. it’s the new year. chilllllllllll.
Hey, check out Tom Paine over here.
Warden El Fuego, I agree with your assessment that Videogum occasionally succumbs to group-think, but after you fucked up as royally as you did to begin the argument, that’s like giving an alien a lollipop while trying to evict him from his home. (This viral District 9 reference brought to you by Sony.) (Not really.)
Totally untrue. Did you see how divided we all were over Team Edward/Team Jacob?
I’m Team Lamp.
Totally untrue. Did you see how divided we all were over Team Edward/Team Jacob?
I thought gabe WAS expressing dissent with this post…
is it better to dissent for dissent’s sake?
Ironic answer:
NO
If you’re going to criticize, Warden, at least capitalize correctly! We monsters must keep our disagreements civil!! As well all know now, WE’RE NOT SAVAGES!
As *we* all know now, obvs.
I feel like such a fool.
FOR real. THAT SHIT bugged me TOO. Learn YOUR GRAMMAR and increase WRITING skills NOW!
no, god hates you.
What is the deal with people snapping and bashing Videogum like lunatics. There is a difference between voicing an opinion and being belligerent. Voicing a different opinion is great and will encourage open debate. Being a turd will not. Everyone is welcome to disagree, but maybe the reason so many readers agree, and in turn are getting on your case is because they just read the post and said, “hmmm, that makes sense”, which honestly seems like more effort than you have made seeing as you are largely misinformed about things that were clearly stated in the (not so long, I might add) post. Just because you are getting blasted, it doesn’t mean it everyone here is of one mind, it means we don’t stand for mindless stupidity.
I agree. Lemmings in extrema.
I don’t understand your complaints, dude. “What does [insert noun here] have to do with videogum” sounds like the silliest question in the world to me. What the fuck does Topher Grace have to do with videogum? EVERYTHING. And that’s not really a joke; nothing is outside the scope of this blog, because it doesn’t have a point or a goal: it just comments on whatever Gabe finds relevant and interesting. Which could be Topher Grace, or Jay Leno, or kittens. Depends on what he’s drinking at the time. I understand some of your frustration, because this is a “community” of sorts with “traditions” of sorts (those quotation marks aren’t supposed to be offensive, Gabey-boy, just trying to keep the fact that this is blog etched firmly in the back of my mind). And if you don’t understand or follow some of those trends, it can be awkward sometimes. People get down-voted all the time because they don’t pick up on inside jokes or obscure references, and that’s a little fucked up, sure. But compared to most other sites out there, and especially blogs covering pop culture, this is a very tame site which tries to have some respect and dignity even as it points its finger and laughs. That being said, at the end of the day videogum is not for everyone; if you love Dunham, Palin, Brokencyde and Leno, you’re probably fighting an uphill battle. But if that’s the case, why bother coming to the site?
Mostly agreed, but that said, there gas been a paucity of decent gum discussion here lately.
Let’s talk, brother
let me direct you to the “about videogum” link http://videogum.com/about.html “Videogum.com is the companion site to Stereogum. While Stereogum is devoted exclusively to music, Videogum offers commentary on TV, movies, and trampoline accidents.” i believe that this would fall under commentary on TV heading.
i think this whole late night thing is actually more closely related to a trampoline accident.
ha! very astute.
No, YOU shut up!!!!!!!
I love reading comments that have been separated from their host by dozens of comments; wading through a sea of tumult to be hit with “no, you shut up” is like finding the toy in the cracker-jack box. Oasis.
I kind of want to vote this up just to keep this comment out of the Monster’s Ball at the end of the week.
ANDREW, don’t INTERRUPT!
I don’t trust anything Jerry Seinfeld says.
I don’t trust a man who hardly ages at all.
What about Richard Alpert?
What’s the deal with Dharma Initiative brand peanuts?
I don’t know, but they’re makin’ me thirsty.
Now I’m just waiting for Ted Danson to weigh in on this epic battle. Our D-Day. We truly are the greatest generation.
Jeez, Seinfeld is really hung up on refs…
OH, c’mon, blue! YOU GOT RABBIT EARS!?
Jerry is totally being 30 about this.
Frankly, I’ve always hated Seinfeld cause it was his fault unfunny douchenozzles called me “Cosmo” for much of the 90s due to an unfortunate last name coincidence. I’m just glad his recent behavior is rationalizing my irrational hatred.
Uh, I’d like to hear from Sideshow Mel.
The kindest interpretation I can give of Seinfeld’s comments is that Conan should be a better behind-the-scenes fighter in the murky, “no rules” world of NBC programming. Seinfeld must have been good at it to get so many chances. Leno is clearly the master.
Who cares what Seinfeld says? He’s just another mediocre comedian (like Leno) expressing an opinion. I think Conan should tell NBC to go fuck themselves and move to FOX. They need another real comedian besides Glenn Beck.
The Beck/O’Brien Hour: Saving America with Masturbating Bears.
I understand that Gabe just wanted to tell Seinfeld to shut up but that Patton interview should have gotten top billing in this thread. Good stuff. And who the hell is that Little Gary guy?
Little Gary is a reoccurring Tom Lennon character on Comedy Death Ray. He often wishes he could have sandpaper for skin. The more you know!
I liked Seinfeld, the show, a lot. But that was apparently because Larry David is talented. Not because Jerry is inherently funny. But Seinfeld the person, in choosing to do whatever it is he does now, is just insanely out of touch. So he made these comments because Jay Leno is a good friend of his. Remember that bizzare attempt to rehabilitate Michael Richards on Letterman after that whole latent racism surfacing thing? Anyway, look for more bizarre out of touch material from Jerry. You can’t have it both ways; you can’t “retire but sort of not” in an art that must push itself to be cutting edge.
Sorry for the long boring comment, but Warden’s the worst, so here goes:
Wow, Warden, you seem like an angry young man. Let’s take a look at your argument:
You say: But NBC is not out to create quality, they are a subsidiary of a publicly traded company and as such must serve the desires of their shareholders: namely, making money.
Correct! But…actually, the decline in NBC’s profitability since the end of Friends is closely tied to NBC’s failure to create “quality” programming. In the year following the end of Friends, every single fall pilot was canceled, save one: JOEY. It had a serious penalty attached and was basically given a walk to go two years. The other pilots — such gems as LAX, Hawaii, Medical Investigation — were canceled so quickly you probably barely remember them. In the intervening years, it’s been more of the same: Four Kings? Celebrity Cooking Showdown? The remake of Coupling. Knight Rider. Inconceivable. those were all real shows. Shoot me in the face please! Those shows represent millions worth of investment and they failed because of, well, a lack of quality.
The flaw in your argument is that network profitability and quality shows don’t go hand in hand. Sure, there are some shit-shows that pull in massive ratings, because we don’t all have the same definition of “quality.” Life is a beautiful mystery which contains both 30 Rock and CSI:Miami. But for every low-rated but best ever The Wire out there, there’s a Lost. Or Cheers. Or Seinfeld. Good and profitable. Well, I never! And as Gabe pointed out, Seinfeld needed time to work. As did, actually Cheers, which had abysmal ratings out of the gate. so could Conan grow his audience? Sure.
For years, Jeff Zucker has been relying on parlor tricks to increase profitability. Super-sizing shows, having an in-front instead of an upfront, moving Leno to 10 so you don’t have to develop. He’s tried to keep costs down instead of raising profits. And this has distracted from the fact that for years NBC has been like a soda company that stopped making soda and expected to keep making money. Or rather, they started making terrible soda and kept insisting we buy it based on the packaging. It might work for a while, but eventually we all realize we’re drinking a tall glass of Celebrity Cooking Showdown.
This whole late show debacle is directly descended from this terrible business philosophy. I actually think that now that Comcast has taken over and Gaspin is in charge things will start to swing back towards NBC actually making TV — quality TV — the most profitable kind! This late show stuff is just a hangover from the previous administration.
But in this whole mess one thing’s certain: don’t blame Conan.
And also one other thing: You know, shut up.
TWSS
Wow, you come off much smarter here than you do on your show. Maybe I will give Millionaire Matchmaker another try!
Did it occur to anyone else that “Warden El Fuego” actually IS Jerry Seinfeld, slumming it in the Videogum comments section? Check the IP address, Gabe…
Being a huge, HUGE, Seinfeld (the show) fan, the humor has always lied within Larry David’s writing, the awesome secondary characters, and it’s ability to reward superfans: it was one of the first shows to be funny while referencing itself. Truth be told, Jerry was always my least favorite character of the initial central four (Constanza being obviously the funniest, still a sham that Jason Alexander never won an Emmy.) Jerry seemed to have been the luckiest straight (humor) man alive to have fallen into such a perfect situation, a show that really didn’t need him to succeed yet bared his name.
Gabe is not a huge Seinfeld fan, something I think most monsters disagree with (re: the Curb posts about the reunion). BUT, I do have to agree with Gabe’s bashing of Jerry. Jerry, like Leno, is an insufferable rich man with a car fetish (I think he has thirty or something cars) and both seem to have profited from being in “the right place at the right time.” “Bee Movie” was pure schlock and the “Jay Leno Show” has been equally squalid. Instead of giving Conan the promised chance to actually helm the Late Night brand, NBC seems ready to pull the rug out from under him without a long trial period. Sure, network television is still a business but Seinfeld (the man) should not be in any position to comment when his show was given amble time to succeed (and it didn’t really even hit it’s stride till that fourth season). Once again, it seems like one rich guy helping out another rich guy, undeserved.
I dunno, I think you might be discounting Jerry’s part in the equation a little unfairly. The show and many of its situations and observations were adapted from Seinfeld’s standup act, after all. And he co-developed/created the show with Larry David, so unless you were in the room at the time, you don’t really know who contributed what. I think that becase David’s post-”Seinfeld” output has generally been so many magnitudes better than Seinfeld’s post-”Seinfeld” work, it’s tempting to paint David as the secret genius and Seinfeld as the lucky jerk.
There’s one point that’s being overlooked. Seinfeld is siding with NBC, why? If he remembered anything about his early experience with his own TV show then he would know he’s wrong. The network has a responsibility to the talent. But he’s also got a new TV show that the network hasn’t seen any of. Maybe he’s just trying to stay in their good graces so they don’t ask any questions about Marriage Ref: the Great American Mystery.
And I assumed that when Seinfeld said O’Brien “should be happy” he was speaking about O’Brien possibly moving to Fox. Which would be weird since he tried to move his show to Fox when NBC wasn’t having any of it.
On a related note, I’ve heard that in the next National Treasure movie will be about Nic Cage searching for the 15 minute Marriage Ref pilot Seinfeld shot on VHS with himself as all the parts and then hid on his private island. Or maybe it isn’t going to be about that.
Seinfeld parable to Conan seems almost like the story of Mad Men. Matt Weiner didn’t even get a call back from HBO when he gave them his idea AFTER he had just made gobs of money from The Sopranos…
As Jimmy Page once said, “Not all that glitters is gold.”
Let’s all agree to watch Curb Your Enthusiasm reruns.
If this were Stereogum, these comments would belong to an equivalent Smashing Pumpkins post!
Having said that, Leno obviously gave Jerry a call ’cause they have a bromance thing going on.
Image brought to you by the Videogum server
Yeah, in case anyone isn?t aware, leno and seinfeld are bro-dawgs from the standup circuit (like a bajillion years ago) whereas conan was never part of that scene.
let?s see what seinfeld says about nbc when his reality show is cancelled a month after it debuts. Hopefully it will do about as well as bee movie. Did you see what I did there mr. seinfeld who is definitely reading this lowly comment? Consider yourself BURNT.
You clearly revere wood.
Even Billy Corgan snarkily once said to Leno: “Comedy don’t pay, Jay.”
Did anyone else notice the insanely ughh reference to his own upcoming show at the end of that Citizen Kane-like quip? We’re going to need a bigger Orsen Welles. Fatter even.
so, if i’m reading this right, the sein’s argument is: “i understand capitalism.” gabe’s ever-resonating, if somewhat moldy, argument is: “i don’t care much for capitalism, and jay leno is the worst, and jerry seinfeld really needs larry david to do anything at all consequential.”
but the comparison of the seinfeld chronicles to the tonight show with conan o’brien, or, more to the point, of jerry seinfeld to conan o’brien, isn’t really that good of one. because, whether conan’s been in the 10:35 (cst ftw) time slot or the 11:37 or the 12:07 or whatever time slot, he’s still been getting a paycheck from nbc for, what, fifteen years? seinfeld hadn’t been on nbc for a month when all the fuss gabe describes took place. nbc understands conan’s audience already, and has a general grasp on where he best fits into their lineup. i appreciate, and even agree with, gabe’s sentiments, but it’s apples and oranges, really.
If Topher Grace weighs in on the Leno/Conan debacle, will Videogum explode?
Gabe, I have been thinking about this for a while now and I actually disagree with your logic here.
You say that Seinfeld needed time to catch on, which it undoubtedly did, and so maybe Conan also needs time. The problem I see is that Seinfeld and sitcoms in general are not analagous to Conan’s current situation.
New sitcoms present to audiences wholly new situations, settings and characters which may need time for audiences to really get into (obviouly this doesn’t hold for seth mcworstlan shows which are all exactly the same). The late night format does not present viewers with anything new to wrap their minds around. They understand the structure of the show, and they know exactly what they are sitting down to watch. As such Conan’s situation is closer to the intorduction of a new character than the creation of a new sitcom.
Furthermore, new sitcoms air only once a week, while Conan is on everyday. So if seinfeld took 3 seasons before catching thats like 60 episodes, which for conan is only 12 weeks.
Now all of this doesn’t change the fact that Seinfeld seems like a prick for what he said here giving his own shows early difficulties. I just think it needed to be said.
This thread needs a little more kumbaya.
Or a little Teamosyl
Jay Leno show: Go to heaven, cousin. Please. (http://videogum.com/archives/drinking_games/the_er_series_finale_drinking_062152.html)
We can still be friends, right?
More than friends.
I love you.
“But there’s no rules in show business, there’s no refs.”
-The Marriage Ref
I just want to take this time to say that I am a little bit in love with Patton Oswalt… okay maybe more than a little bit.
I agree Seinfeld sounds like a ‘tard (maybe even an Avatard) but this really doesn’t bother me. I mean, Seinfeld’s comments are unfortunate to those of us, like myself, that basically grew up on both Seinfeld and Conan. But really, what does Jerry Seinfeld owe Conan? He is boys with Leno, they drive their outrageous cars to each others’ houses on weekends then go on picnics where they sit on a blanket made of $100 bills and vicuña thread. Of course Jerry is going to back-up Leno in this situation. In fact, I’m surprised he didn’t just tell Conan to fuck himself b/c Jay needs that money to get Jerry another million dollar Porsche for his b-day. Also, I do honestly believe no one should sacrifice their honor or integrity for money but Conan should just take the money and run. NBC looks like the total fool here and in about two years when every remaining Leno fan has died peacefully of old age no one will be left to watch late night TV b/c everyone that is a fan of Conan is young enough to understand how to use TiVo or Hulu. NBCis screwed either way b/c late night variety shows are dead, Conan should just bounce now and move on to better things while he looks like a martyr and not languish at NBC until he is the face of irrelevance.
I agree with you for the most part. I guess it just bothers me because like Gabe said, WHO ASKED YOU, you rich a-hole? God! I mean, it’s not like Jay Leno needs Seinfeld’s help here. HE WON in his battle to stay on the air telling shitty jokes and reading headlines. He’s getting exactly what he wanted and he owns all the cars! Hooray! Fine! But here comes Seinfeld to kick Conan when he’s down. He’s like the dumb bully’s smarter best friend who comes in after the beating’s been administered to get in a few punches and plug his awful new show.
Bee movie 2: Two bee or not two bee. You’re welcome, Jerry!
TLDR
I love Patton Oswalt, but when I was listening to the interview on the CDR Radio podcast, I was like, “Shut up, Patton!” It’s soooooo boring to hear comedians talk critically about comedy in a completely unfunny way.
I am not trying to be inflammatory, but I had no idea that adult people actually watched “late night television” like Leno, Conan and SNL. I honestly thought those shows were for 12 year olds so they could go to school on Monday and say “dude, I was up soooo late at night”.
It seems like a big commitment to watch all that late night television.
Hulu
I am one of those international posters that is always like “Noooooo Hulu!” cuz it doesn’t work for us. Obviously these late night TV show posts are not directed at me!
I like Jerry Seinfeld.
I DON’T KNOW WHAT WE’RE YELLING ABOUT!
Seinfeld was only good cause of Elaine. And now the actress who plays her is no good.
Wait… Why is Gabe making something about Conan about Seinfeld???
The best offense is a good DEfense
NBC just announced that Seinfeld’s new show will be on NBC…at 10pm.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/business/media/15conan.html
Team Carson?
Blerg, First Comment Ever-fail. This was supposed to be in response to Girl Friday (and it was supposed to be sized properly).
“The internet is hard!” -the elderly users of Twitter