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gabe: you like Kevin smith?
lindsay: i like him as a person
lindsay: but I hate his movies
gabe: what?
lindsay: like the artist but hate the art
gabe: i’m pretty sure the typical argument is you like the art but hate the artist
gabe: who loves the artist but hates the art?
lindsay: I think his story is a cool story and I think he seems like an interesting and nice person
lindsay: Like, I want him to succeed and keep making movies.
lindsay: I just don’t want to see them
lindsay: because I HATE them. HATE.
gabe: i don’t really understand the argument of wanting him to keep getting to make terrible movies?
gabe: i don’t want him to be bodily injured
gabe: but i don’t see what the point is of funding garbage
lindsay: Well, it’s like he makes movies for another demographic.
lindsay: Like kids
lindsay: I’m not a kid, but I understand there need to be kid movies.
lindsay: just as long as nobody I know likes his movies or makes me watch them.
gabe: i feel like we get in the same argument a lot
gabe: which is you defend mediocrity as needing to exist and deserving to exist
gabe: like, i understand how the world works, and that most things are going to be horrible
gabe: but that doesn’t mean it has to be that way
gabe: or should be that way
lindsay: Maybe I just keep hoping that he’ll do something good?
lindsay: Not that I’ll see it
lindsay: but that someone I trust will say “No, really, it’s good, there’s finally a reason why he gets to make movies. Everything is okay now.”
gabe: i think that kevin smith should have to always mkae his movies on a shoestring budget
gabe: like with clerks
gabe: and he should be forced with every movie to try and scrounge up distribution via word of mouth
gabe: he should ahve to prove himself every time
gabe: because the only reason clerks did as well as it did was because it stood as a beacon of hope to dejected film students
gabe: and that is totally fair
gabe: i can respect that
lindsay: YES
gabe: it’s as good a reason as any
lindsay: can I agree?
lindsay: I agree with that
gabe: yes
lindsay: he should have to max out his credit cards
lindsay: and sell his car
lindsay: that would be a great stunt anyway
gabe: i feel like he’s just bouyed on every project by this mythology
gabe: him and Robert Rodriguez
gabe: great, you fucking gave blood to make your movie, that’s wonderful
gabe: But THAT WAS FORTY-FIVE YEARS AGO
gabe: now that you have all the money you didn’t have last time WHY NOT MAKE A GOOD MOVIE
lindsay: hahaha
lindsay: I totally agree with this
lindsay: STRONGLY
lindsay: I think they’re just getting lazy
gabe: and neither of them has made a good movie since
lindsay: I think maybe because they think of themselves as auteurs, and as people who got where they are purely on merit, they think they deserve to have total control over their movies that most directors don’t have. And it’s given to them.
gabe: you know that he does a lecture series, right?
lindsay: I don’t know if I knew he has a lecture series
gabe: he will just go somewhere and talk and charge 30-100 dollars for a ticket
gabe: example
gabe: http://www.bergenpac.org/event.php?evid=373&sid=9
lindsay: aww
gabe: what aww?
lindsay: aww for the lives of the people who buy those tickets.
gabe: hahahaha
gabe: the thing that’s really weird with kevin smith is that you don’t get any sense of movement with him
gabe: like he’s never trying to do better than he did before
gabe: he’s been treading water for 14 years
lindsay: Yeah, and on the one hand that’s bad.
lindsay: But if you compare him to one of those celebrities who is constantly clawing to the point where you’re like “Don’t you have enough money? Just go live your life.” he seems almost healthy not growing as an artist.
lindsay: Like maybe he just has a really great life with his kid or whatever
lindsay: and his wife and his friends
lindsay: maybe he just makes a shitty movie every few years
gabe: i’m sure he has a great life
gabe: i don’t understand your point though
gabe: you think that kevin smith makes bad movies because he’s humble?
lindsay: Well in his case maybe he accepts his limitations
lindsay: I’m just trying to think of the Best Possible Universe In Which Kevin Smith Is Still Allowed To Make Movies
lindsay: I’m not talking about people with talent
lindsay: I’m talking about, like, britney spears
gabe: she has talent
gabe: she has more talent than kevin smith
lindsay: well okay
lindsay: bad example
lindsay: but I don’t think there are a lot of people out there who were born with the ability to write and direct good movies who are not able to do so because of Kevin Smith
gabe: i think that is half fair
gabe: you get one half of a point
lindsay: I was going to say that maybe someone else should write KS movies
lindsay: but then they’re even worse
gabe: because he gets such great performances?
gabe: you don’t want to lose his magic touch with actors?
gabe: i think that there is actually a very limited pool of money for making movies that will actually be shown in theaters
gabe: so while i think you might be right that kevin smith isn’t single-handedly keeping a bunch of super great artists out
gabe: he still gets millions of dollars to make movies
lindsay: Have you ever seen a student thesis film?
gabe: yes
lindsay: They’re terrible
gabe: Yes many of them are terrible
gabe: LIKE KEVIN SMITH’S FILMS
lindsay: Yeah, actually, they’re similar
gabe: the argument that there are lots of people who make bad films
gabe: as a reason for why kevin smith should be allowed to make more bad films
gabe: is sad
gabe: makes me sad
lindsay: I think the argument here is that Kevin Smith maybe COULD be good if people said no to him
lindsay: Like if he had to have a co-director
lindsay: a minder
gabe: haha
lindsay: like a celebrity drug minder, but for terrible shitty dialog
gabe: someone to pick out his hockey jerseys
lindsay: You know, I really want him to make a good movie.
gabe: this is why george bush got elected
gabe: because he seemed nice enough
lindsay: I want that.
lindsay: Like, Elizabeth Banks and Seth Rogen have a lot of choices.
lindsay: Why would they choose this if it isn’t good?
gabe: i really don’t think either of those actors are beyond making mistakes
gabe: it’s not like they’re unquestionable in their choices
gabe: seriosuly, though
gabe: Kevin Smith is the George Bush of movies
gabe: he is the director people want to have a beer with
lindsay: yes
gabe: and this movie
gabe: is his hurricane Katrina
lindsay: I hope Kevin Smith doesn’t read this. I want him to have a good weekend.
gabe: kevin smith is your boyfriend
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I feel like Kevin Smith is that defensive comic book fanatic that always harped about how he could make a better movie than director A. With his dialogue, it’s just him arguing with a brick wall so he can prove himself correct (on unimportant things like sci-fi and comic book characters having sex).
This post made me mad because it reminded me that Chasing Amy exists and that there was a time (in 9th grade) where I thought that movie was great. Important note: I had kissed only one girl with tongue at that point and I think a complete lack of understanding of both relationships and women is integral to thinking that movie has any merit, whatsoever.
KEVIN SMITH IS A TRACER
agreed. as a woman (or a 13 year old, at that point) I knew right away the movie had no merit.
wow…i mean, let me just say, i really enjoy kevin smith’s writing just as i used to read lindsayism all the time, but this “conversation” epitomized why i haven’t been reading videogum as religiously as the others i have on the blogroll. the fact that this conversation was even posted, i mean, i loves me some snarkiness, but comparing kevin smith to W…? wow. this fucking georgia heat…i just squashed a really large disgusting roach on my patio, and in some way it feels appropriate. thanks for alleviating me the extra allegiance/time i would’ve spent on this blog. me likee stereogum. lindsay and guy, keep rocking…i guess…cheers. (aren’t ellipses grrreat?)
Stoners love Kevin Smith. As an ex-hessian, he was hilarious.
How does two people agreeing about something constitute Friday fight? This just sounds like a really bitchy rant against someone who you point out again and again is a nice guy.
How does you have such shitty grammar? That was intentionally cheesy. I’m sorry@
He probably directed a few of those movies in the Silent Bob character. Affleck would turn and ask for some direction and Smith just stood there kinda nodding.
Also, in the BergenPAC event y’all linked to, the bio listed Kevin Smith as having directed Good Will Hunting. I had to quickly check imdb.
“Kevin Smith is the George Bush of movies”
Wow, what a good way to put it. Except I would not want to have a beer with Bush. But the sentiment still works.
Was this post supposed to be funny in like a really lazy-ass ironic way? Cause I thought it was supposed to be a fight, am I wrong? I mean I fine with one side hating Kevin Smith movies ( I like some of his films) but shouldn’t the other side get a dog in this fight? It’s really quite sad to watch two people bash someone that is completely defenseless even if you like the artist and hate the art.
The part where you called Kevin Smith “defenseless” made me LOL.
Welcome to “Lazy post-writing 101.” What a piece of shit.
http://www.bandwidththeater.com/magicfeather.html
I must disagree.
Sure, the reason “Clerks” was successful had more to do with the story of how Smith made the film than the quality of the film itself (much like Rodriguez with “El Mariachi”), but that doesn’t invalidate him as a filmmaker. Particularly since his films have, in my opinion, improved over the years. That fact alone justifies his existence.
Also, there are at least a dozen filmmakers that should be “banned from making movies” before Kevin Smith (Uwe Boll, Paul W.S. Anderson, Brett Ratner, etc).
At least Smith’s films have a distinctive voice and originate from a seemingly genuine place. Unlike the legions of sell-out camera jockeys who constantly churn out the same Studio swill. Talk about mediocrity…
You know what else has a distinctive voice and originates from a seemingly genuine place? Cancer.
Kevin Smith lives down the street from a friend of mine, and I have to pass his huge ass house every time I go there, and the thing that bugs me the most about Kevin Smith (other than not liking his music) is that he has a Clerks bumper sticker on his SUV.
I don’t care what ya’all say about me, but I love Kevin Smith. His new stuff might suck, but can you honestly say you didn’t laugh your ass off at Mallrats? Chasing Amy was beautiful. Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back was just dumb sillyness, and not in a bad way. And Dogma… Dogma is my religion.
He is a funny guy – have you ever watched his deleted scenes or commentary on his DVDs? He’s really a nice guy.
Unfortunately, ever since he became tight with Jay Leno, he caugh the Leno unfunny bug, and his movies have sucked ever since. But i still give him credit.
He signed my friends copy of Chasing Amy by drawing an arrow at Joey Lauren Adams and writing “Had her, Kevin Smith”
Who cares if you like Kevin Smith movies? He is famous, with millions of peopl loving his movies, and you are two nobodies in an arguement about him. And hate the art but like the artist, anyway you try to explain that – its ridiculous. Im not even a die hard kevin smith fan, but his movies are good. They arent Forest Gump, Scarface, or Shawshank Redemption good, but they beat the hell out of alot of other movies that are poppin up today. And Kevin Smiths work reaches a lot of people whos lives are similiar to those in his films. Clerks was a movie with basically no plot, just a couple idiots gettin thru a day, and it was a pretty normal day, thats what the poverty REAL world is like, and it just makes people who have been there laugh. I stumbled onto this site by accident, looking for lyrics to a song. Dont know how i got here, but i had to read it, because I just saw clerks again today. I stopped reading the arguement half way because its just crazy. It sounds like two retards arguing over who gets to pretend scuba dive with their imaginary friend tiger with gills.
Please dont reply to my comment
Forest Gump, Scareface and the Shawshank Redemption? Those are your golden three? The stuff film makers should live up to?
Wait, I just realized you were joking. LOLs. “It sounds like two retards arguing over who gets to pretend scuba dive with their imaginary friend tiger with gills.” Yes. Yes it does sound like that.
I don’t get the vitriol for Kevin Smith, but then again the only movies of his I’ve seen are Dogma and Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back. I mean, neither of those movies is brilliant, but there’s a lot worse out there.
That Chasing Amy clip is really really bad though.
Also I liked El Mariachi.